Killing Vampires

TerishD · Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:36 am Post subject: Killing Vampires

Okay, we have a problem with vampires. They are a nuisance, and one that you just cannot kill. Yes, they drain levels, so you would rather not fight them, but there are times when you just have to go out and do something for the greater good.

So, you get your stuff together, confront the vampire, and --POOF-- he turns gaseous. That is when trouble begins. We have excavated pyramids attempting to get at the resting places of those creatures. I mean, you can hurt them, but then --POOF-- they go gaseous back to a safe place of rest, and you know that you are not going to get paid because the problem has not been eradicated.

There is a spell in my game called Force Shapechange. I believe that I stole it from a spell in Relics and Rituals. Anyway, here it is -

Force Shapechange
Abjuration
Level: Cle 4, Ora 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 Action
Range: 10'/level
Effect: One Creature/Level reveals form
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
Recipients of this spell who fail their save will find themselves forced into their true form. It is probably the only way that most adventurers will see the real form of a Doppleganger. Lycanthropes will revert to their true form. Polymorphed creatures will revert to their true form, even those using Polymorph Self. Illusionary creatures will disappear. Those wearing disguises will remove them.

The caster can choose which creatures within his line of sight will be affected. Note that those needing to make a change must use whatever time requirement is necessary for the change when they can next take an action.

Material Component: A piece of skin from a shapechanger.

Well, I had a vampire in a recent scenario, and one of my players used this spell to force the gaseous undead back into his corporeal form. Well, I checked the spell Gaseous Form for reference. Nothing said that it could not be affected. Yes, I gave the monster saves and such - stupid dice should have known better than to roll so low. If this was a low level spell, I probably would not have allowed it. This spell is fourth level however, so I allowed that it could work. Any thoughts from others?

Wyndeleth · Forum Hottie Joined: Jan 11, 2006 Posts: 764

Looks good -- I'd allow it in my game, probably.

Just a couple of questions, though.

The duration is 1rd/level. For a creature like a vampire, dragon, or true lycanthrope who can shapechange at will, does this mean that they cannot shapechange at all for the duration?

Also, I don't see how such a spell would remove a physical disguise. I mean, what happens ... does the rogue start shedding her beggar's robes in a kind of strip tease? Does her fake nose pop off? Does her mascara run? (ha ha)

TerishD · Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Killing Vampires

Yes, it means that they cannot switch back for the duration. As for those disguised, they remove it (part of the Will save - fail and they blow their cover). The spell was originally designed for lycanthropes, but in the usual 3ed fashion they wrote it broader than that. I liked it enough to include it my rules, and my players are now high enough to start testing those spells. I don't like vampires either (we fought them in the campaign that I play in) and felt that it would work, but I promised to see what others thought (so I posted it here).

Meefman · Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:23 am Post subject: Re: Killing Vampires

I'd allow the spell.

Sanaldo_de_Mirdo · Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:14 am Post subject: Re: Killing Vampires

I would gladly have the spell, but I would remove the effects that it has against illusions and disguises that are not based on some kind of magical shape change. I would also give it fancier name, something like Sunder Polymorph for a really sadly uncreative example (give me some time and I'll think of something as cool as Dimensional Anchor). I would say that because an illusion is not actually there, that the spell would not work, and that it would only work on someone in a disguise if they were also polymorphed or shape-shifted in conjunction.

I remember someone telling me about a campaign where a werefox was being hunted by their party, and when in human form it would put on disguises (ala Robin Hood from the Disney cartoon) because they had seen his human form and knew what he looked like. The spell, as I would rule it, would force him back to his natural form, but any mundane disguise elements or illusions laid upon that would still be there-unless, in the case of Wyndeleth's example, the foxman was wearing something like a false nose, which would probably be forced from his face once the fox snout came out.

In a Third Edition game, I am wondering if it would cancel a prestidigitation, or if, for example, the strange color that had been prestidigitated to a polymorphed person's skin over the top of the polymorphic effects would remain that way even when the spell changed them to their real form.

TerishD · Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:46 am Post subject: Re: Killing Vampires

Sanaldo_de_Mirdo wrote:

In a Third Edition game, I am wondering if it would cancel a prestidigitation, or if, for example, the strange color that had been prestidigitated to a polymorphed person's skin over the top of the polymorphic effects would remain that way even when the spell changed them to their real form.

I would hate for a zero-level spell to overcome a 4th level spell, but I don't think Prestidigitation would actually count as a disguise. A change in color is not exactly a disguise -- but let me read the rules. Okay, yep, it helps. Even in my rules it is allowed that it could aid a disguise (gives an adjustment up to 1/2 caster level). I would thus have to rule that the zero-level spell is also suspended. I want it noted however that Force Shapechange is only effective for 1 round/level, while the other spells we are mentioning are effective much longer.